In this episode, we discuss EHS audits in the APAC region, diving into regional comparisons and how the industry has been evolving. We hear from experts David Cham, Country Manager, ESC Singapore, Sandra O’Brien-Kelly, Principal Environmental Scientist and Technical Director of Environmental Auditing and Sustainability, Tonkin + Taylor New Zealand and Tom Tang, Senior Project Manager, Anew Global Consulting in China.
In this episode, we discuss EHS audits in the APAC region, diving into regional comparisons and how the industry has been evolving. We hear from experts David Cham, Country Manager, ESC Singapore, Sandra O’Brien-Kelly, Principal Environmental Scientist and Technical Director of Environmental Auditing and Sustainability, Tonkin + Taylor New Zealand and Tom Tang, Senior Project Manager, Anew Global Consulting in China. The group covers key drivers of change and their advice to multinational companies looking to do their audits more efficiently.
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Guest Quotes
“Build a local compliance team. It's very important to have a strong team local.” - Tom
“We're seeing EHS broaden to more social considerations and social factors, which is wonderful to see because we're getting much better results out of that.” - Sandra
“The importance of a local understanding is apparent, especially in Asia, Asia Pacific and Southeast Asia where language is an issue. Some of the regulations are written only in the local language and for multinationals to really understand what it means to comply, translating it to English may not capture the exact interpretation.” - David
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Time Stamps
(02:02) EHS Audits in Singapore
(04:05) EHS Audits in New Zealand
(05:47) EHS Audits in China
(07:38) The growing importance of remote audits
(08:54) The value of local understanding in EHS audits
(15:39) Drivers of change
(20:02) Tips for multinational companies
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Sponsor copy
Rethinking EHS is brought to you by the Inogen Alliance. Inogen Alliance is a global network of environment, health, safety, sustainability and ESG consulting companies working together to provide one point of contact to guide multinational organizations to meet their global commitments locally. Visit http://www.inogenalliance.com/ to learn more.
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Links
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Phil: [00:00:00] EHS audits are the key to all EHS endeavors. A company has to understand where they currently stand in order to make any improvements to EHS initiatives. Today on the podcast, we'll speak with three experts in EHS audits from the APAC region. They'll dive into the work they do with audits, exploring differences in the regions, and how the space has been evolving.
They'll also discuss key drivers of change and their advice to multinational companies looking to do their audits more efficiently. This is the first episode in our two part series on EHS audits. Tune in to our next episode to hear from experts in the EMEA region and in the U. S. For our panel discussion, I'm excited to be joined by three experts in EHS audits.
David Cham Country Manager ESC Singapore, Sandra O'Brien Kelly, Principal Environmental Scientist and Technical Director of Environmental Auditing and Sustainability at Tonkin Taylor, New Zealand, and Tom Tang, Senior [00:01:00] Project Manager of Anew Global Consulting in China. David has over 18 years experience in EHS consulting with a focus on EHS assessments.
His expertise extends to EHS compliance, due diligence assessments, and sustainability reporting. Sandra has over 20 years of experience in consultancy and in the industrial sector in New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, and the UK. She has very strong and practical auditing experience, with a particular strength in identifying gaps across suites of projects and identifying opportunities for more effective environmental risk management.
Tom has 16 years of experience in EHS compliance audits and due diligence environmental site assessments. Having completed more than 120 audits.
Well, hello everyone. And thanks so much for sharing your time today. Definitely looking forward to jumping into this conversation and learning a bit about your role and the work that you do in the APAC region. So, [00:02:00] I'll start with David and ask this question. Can you explain a little bit about the work that you do with EHS audits?
David: Thanks, Phil. Happy to be here. So, EHS audits and viral solutions, I and myself, we do it as part of a global and environmental compliance program. So, EHS audit is actually just a portion of it. Before that, we will, we do, you know, development of legal registers, development of audit checklist. And then once that is done, we'll be doing EHS audits.
And then, you know, following that, we'll be supporting the client in closing the gaps in budgeting and, you know, all the various measures to help to ensure that they comply with the regulations. That's the gist of what EHS audits that we have been doing.
Phil: So, David, can you talk a little bit about the people that you work with when you're doing these audits?
David: So, primarily when we run global and a regional compliance audit that we only work with the [00:03:00] global directors of EHS or APEC or you know, regional EHS managers, because nowadays the market has changed so much. Traditionally, you know, EHS audits, we, we work with well established, uh, operations that, you know, uh, EHS audit is just big.
done as a health check on the organizations. But nowadays, when companies are growing so rapidly, the EHS audits that we do is the first time they've ever done it. They just need to check, you know, what's going on in their whole organization. And they have this whole task of ensuring everywhere it's complying.
We are primarily working a lot with one or two individuals and then try to roll out a regional program. But down the line, of course, when you do the EHS audits, you start working with each in country, you know, facilities managers, country managers, or the what not.
Phil: Super. That's, that's super helpful to understand the, the scope of regional projects and then drilling [00:04:00] down a little bit to something that is a national or, or, or more local.
So, Sandra, how would you talk about the work that you do with EHS audits from the perspective of a principal environmental scientist?
Sandra: Sure. Yeah, look, I've been doing this work quite some time and I think what we do here at Tonkin Taylor might be a little bit different to David's experience. We do lots of different types of EHS audits.
So sometimes we're, we're working with clients who are saying, Hey, you know, we're just don't know where we're at. We, we know we've got regulatory obligations, but you know, can you help us figure out what to do? Um, other times it's a client that's bought a new site and they just want to set up in the right way.
They're, they're establishing a new premises and I want to make sure that they're doing the right thing. Okay. We've got clients who've really moved on from that regulatory compliance space and want to look at best practice and what's the best thing we can do and, you know, what's cutting edge out there, what's leading edge.
That's where we want to be. And then we also do things like eco labeling audits for EcoChoice Aotearoa and Good Environmental Choice Australia, which is looking at a product and services compliance, but again, at that [00:05:00] best practice space. And we do quite a bit of work around ISO 14001, so environment management system audits, and we can do ISO 45001 audits for health and safety systems, and looking at that newer range of audits in this space, which is around the SDGs, so the SDG impact seal.
And audits there as well. So clients come to us with different needs and we don't have a one set of, hey, this is the type of audit we do, it's just responding to whatever, whatever drivers they have and whatever they need to address.
Phil: Well, I appreciate that you're sharing the different types of audits because it gives a real perspective of the breadth of where people could be and a little bit of the arc of how a certain company might grow in its implementation of this sort of strategy.
Now, I've been to Singapore, I've been to New Zealand, and I've been to China, but not where Tom is from. So Tom, can you tell us a little bit about how the work that you do with EHS Audits might be, might be similar or might be different? And specifically, you know, what sort of data you capture or regulations you can, you need to comply with that [00:06:00] might be different in China than other parts of the region?
Tom: Yes, in China, I think it's a little bit different. Yes, we do a lot of compliance audit, EHS audit, and conformance EHS audit. You know, compliance is mainly focused on the legal requirements. Yes, we have tons of EHS regulation and laws in China. And some multi international clients, they may have global standards.
Then we need to fit into the local adaption. So, sometimes when we do the audits, one hand we need to focus on the compliance, and on the other hand, we still also need to focus on the conformance. Then, what typically we do is, before the audit, we normally develop a protocol. We call it EHS checklist, yeah, to fit into the specific factories or industries.
Then we go to the on site audits. There's very specific, different industry. We do auto parts or some textile or some [00:07:00] apparel, different industry we did in China. Then one of the important thing for the EHS audit on site is to have a closing to wrap up all the details with the clients, the site EHS, and the factory manager to know what we do.
the findings for them and what are our suggestions or recommendations for them to follow. And after the audits, we typically, we help to provide a corrective action plan for the factories to follow up. And sometimes, uh, the factory will invite us to go back to the site to follow their actions have been corrected or not.
Yes. And in the recently, because, you know, during the past few years, we still have some virtual or remote audits in China. Yes, this is what we did.
Phil: Great, Tom. So do you see this activity is increasing recently, decreasing recently, or, or staying the same? And why?
Tom: I think it's increasing. [00:08:00] Uh, pandemic, uh, virtual audit and remote audit is becoming, uh, increasingly because in different regions due to some, uh, general restriction, uh, we develop some audit tools and some apps for data collection.
So remote audit is becoming increasing recently.
Phil: So remote audits would sound like they're a little bit easier, maybe a little lower cost and you can do more of them and increase the level of compliance. Is that fair?
Tom: Yes. Uh, during the, the economy is going down and some factory will have a budget, uh, concerned then they cut some costs and they prefer to use virtual audits like we did in Colombia, we did in South Korea and Japan, the client prefers to use a remote audit.
Then we use some VR technologies to cut the cost.
Phil: Got it. That makes a ton of sense. And it's probably even better for the environment. So I'm going to go to Sandra with the same question about the difference between regional and local understanding, which [00:09:00] we know is pretty important in New Zealand, as well as the level of activity.
What are your thoughts, Cindra?
Sandra: Yeah, look, for the level of activity, I think we are seeing an uptake in demand for these type of audits. You know, after COVID, there's definitely a lot more of our people here in New Zealand are working from home. And so we've seen concerns around how we make sure their wellbeing is still okay, electrical safety if they're working from home, because they're not getting the checks they get in the office, and psychosocial.
health considerations. And we're seeing, you know, companies are really quite concerned about their people. If they're working from home, are they taking their breaks? You know, is their workload too much? So we're seeing some of that. And from an environmental point of view, we're definitely seeing an uptake in audits or an uptake in increasing demand as people are looking more.
We're really an export company in New Zealand. So looking towards those export markets and what those demands might be, and being able to demonstrate your environmental credentials. And so an independent audit is a really great way to be able to do that, to be able to say, Hey, we've done all our checks and we're, you know, we're on top of things [00:10:00] and helps give confidence to those people you're selling to in your supply chain.
So, so demand wise, it's definitely not getting any lower, which is wonderful because it's work that we enjoy doing. As for the differences, yeah, New Zealand is, we've got quite complex legislation here in New Zealand. I think that's where people come from overseas really value the support of a, of a consultant when they come here.
So our health and safety legislation, it's all regulations on the health under the health and safety at work act, which is fine. It's it's one act with regulations that sit off that, but it's all centered around a primary duty of care and centered around very broad and risk based approach. to looking after people.
So, you know, as far as reasonably practical, making sure that you have a work environment that minimizes risks or impacts to health and safety. So it's, there's not a lot of very specific or prescriptive things. It's about managing risk. So that can be difficult for people to, to understand what they need to do.
And to have confidence that they're doing the right thing. And then the environmental legislation gets even more complex. So we have our, our main [00:11:00] act is the Resource Management Act, and we do have some national environmental standards under that, but it also allows our councils to set the do's and don'ts and set the rules.
So the act itself doesn't have much of that. It has the overarching principles. about managing impacts to air, land and water, but the do's and don'ts are sitting in plans. So our regional councils can set plans about discharges to the environment, um, and about managing resources. And then our district councils that sit under that will set requirements around use of land.
And if you have hazardous substances, that will come under that Health and Safety at Work Act, or if there are environmental hazards, under a different act. And then there's a local government act, which allows us to set bylaws for trade waste and waste. And so, yeah, it's really quite complex. And that's where having someone who can navigate all those rules and pull them all together and make sure you're covered is really quite helpful.
People from overseas find it quite surprising.
Phil: Yeah, it's quite surprising for a place that's really known for taking care of its environment to really take care of its environment. One of the things we've learned in past [00:12:00] episodes is about the relationship with the Indigenous culture that's benefited the overall relationship of the nation and its ability to operate with multinationals.
Can you share any? Benefits that you think that the EHS audit or this space has gained from that unique relationship?
Sandra: Yeah, look, you know, I think, well, there's, there's two parts of it. I think, I think there's, there's great learnings on how to look after the environment well from Te Ao Māori. So from that Māori worldview, you know, a good understanding of true care and consideration for the environment and for our land, and quite a special, um, understanding of the relationship we should have and should want to have with our environment and how we will best coexist together.
So that's quite a, a strong thing we can take from, from Te Amare. I think also as well, you know, when it comes to the EHS audits, because of that relationship and how we try to pull in that indigenous consideration, it's helping us to consider our communities more so when people are getting [00:13:00] permits or what we call them consents here For infrastructure or building work, you know, they really have to do proper engagement with our communities now to make sure that whatever's being built and developed is really right for them.
And so we're seeing, I guess, EHS just broadened really to more social considerations and social factors, which is wonderful to see because we're getting much better results out of that.
Phil: Outstanding. So I'm going to go to David with the same question about the activity increasing or decreasing and some of the regional and local understanding and how it works into the context of the audit.
David: Right, sure. Certainly I agree with Tom and Sandra. There's really an increase in requests for audit and compliance type of work, at least in the last six months to the 12 months, we've seen a lot of requests coming in. For regions like India, Vietnam, as well as Southeast Asia. So there's a lot of expansion into these markets, especially from the tech sector.
So India is really a hot zone [00:14:00] for us now. We have like, uh, audits like every other month in there. And some clients have portfolios there, like, like 13, 14, 15 sites that we need to crunch out in the next two, three months. So definitely an increase. And if you talk about the importance of a local understanding, uh, so it is very, uh, apparent here, uh, especially in Asia, Asia Pacific and Southeast Asia, where language is an issue.
Some of the regulations are written only in the local language and for, you know, multinationals to really understand what does it mean to comply, translating it to English may not capture the exact interpretation. So, therefore, the presence of local auditors to actually explain the nuance and the context of each regulation and how to comply and what it actually means is very important.
very keen in the decision making process. So very often after we undertake the audit, we created this gap analysis [00:15:00] and corrective action and the clients like, we still don't know how to do it. So what's next? So what we do actually is we embed some of our staff in the organizations to actually Help the client say, okay, this is what you're going to do.
This is how you're going to do it. This is the budget that you can set aside. These are the top priorities. You know, we work with these top five issues first and the other 10 we can work next year. So a lot of all this context, you know, and experience is helpful for the clients in the long run in how they manage the budgets and the compliance of, you know, all their operations in these far out countries.
Cool.
Phil: Cool. It's very interesting. One of the thoughts I was going through my head as each of you was talking was really the simple question of why. So I kind of want to move to this other question of what is the most significant driver of change? I've heard best practices, cultural influences, COVID, new technology, ESG, CSRDA.
I've heard these terms and there's more. [00:16:00] What do you think is the most important driver of change or the one that you think should be most significant? In your region or for the multinationals you serve? I'm going to start this time with David and go back around.
David: Right. What I do see the main increase is really the expansion, uh, into Asia, uh, because that's where Tom and I are based.
You mean
Phil: like multinational
David: expansion
Phil: into Asia?
David: Yeah, that's from the US. It could be from Europe and as well as some of the Asian companies that expand a lot in the region. So we do see quite a lot of expansion here and that drives up a lot of this demand for the EHS audits and compliance understanding.
And countries like Vietnam, Philippines, where In the past, uh, there's, there's some investment, but now it's growing there and India itself is, yes, open up the market. And, and that's where we see a lot of requests that area. So I think [00:17:00] it's just the environment we are in and what's going on elsewhere in, in Russia that, you know, it, it just drives the operations in, into more into Asia now.
Phil: That makes a lot of sense. So I'm going to pass it to Tom. David's a hard act to follow. What would you say is the most significant driver?
Tom: Yes. During the COVID pandemic, many of the supply chain of the electronics moved to Southeast Asia, like Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, And like that, after the COVID, I saw that the market coming back, many of the supply and trade, uh, going back to China.
Yeah. You know, we, uh, recently we do a lot of, uh, supply and trade, all these supply and trade management programs. For the high tech companies like Apple, Google, and other key clients, multiple international clients in China. And also for some sports and apparel industry, the supply chain also come back to China.
Yes, [00:18:00] both in South China and North China, then we have many supply chains nowadays for the waste management program. Zero waste, uh, landfill to landfill program, we have the clean water program, and we also have some, uh, uh, energy efficiency program for the supply chain. So in my opinion, I think the most significant driven for the, all this back to China's market is the, is the supply chain mAnewfacturing.
So I think this is a big
Phil: market. Outstanding. Thanks so much, Tom. Sandra, can you bring us home on this one? Sure.
Sandra: Yeah, I guess from our perspective, when we think about health and safety audits and what's changed, I think really the biggest driver now is that greater awareness around well being and people's well being.
So in order to retain staff and retain good staff, companies are really concerned that they are helping people manage their well being, um, as well as they can. And that's been, you know, quite a big driver and a move on from basic compliance, I think as [00:19:00] well. In the environmental space, as Tom was talking about supply chains, you know, same here in New Zealand for our mAnewfacturers here in New Zealand and for a lot of organizations, it's really key.
And what's those changing regulations up in Europe are really a forefront of people's minds now. So that great effort emphasis in Europe around environmental considerations and environmental issues is seeing greater demand here in New Zealand, or we're seeing greater demand here in New Zealand for companies who want to be able to prove that they're doing the right thing.
So that basic compliance. But also that the, the claims they're making are, are, are truthful and accurate. So just that all those issues around greenwashing and, and environmental claims, people want to be able to prove that what they're saying is truthful because it's important for their supply chain. So I think that's where the two main drivers I'm seeing on from a health and safety perspective and from an environmental perspective.
Phil: That's great. Thank you. Great awareness around well being and an authentic desire to protect the environment. No big surprise to hear that from coming out of New Zealand. Okay, so we got time for one more question and [00:20:00] it's a quick one. So in 30 seconds or less, David, what is one tip you have for multinational companies who want to do this better, faster, and cheaper?
David: Well, quick answer, it's a lot of it is resources. They need to invest in people to ensure compliance. So if they can't invest in people, they have to get some help elsewhere, whether it be from consultants or, you know, some of their staff members. They need to realign some of their priorities in this space such that, you know, their operations can go on smoothly.
That's the quick answer.
Phil: Lots of expertise needed. They can't have it all in house, right? Tom, how would you answer that question? What tips would you have for multinational companies who want to do this better, faster, and cheaper?
Tom: Yes. One is to build a local compliance team. It's really important to have a strong team local.
And the second one is the locals, uh, global standards with local adoption, because you need to integrate your local standards into the local adaptation. Number three is the, uh, to conduct [00:21:00] regular localized audits to keep the compliance. The last one, the thing is the trading and culture awareness for the multinational companies.
Phil: Awesome. That's pretty, a pretty good list of things to do and, um, makes a whole lot of sense given everything that we know. Sandra, what else would you add?
Sandra: Yeah, look, I think mine's quite a simple piece of advice, really. It's just make sure you have strong local support so that you can ensure you're doing the right things.
You know what the right things are and that you're doing them and you're not getting caught up expending effort on areas that are not going to benefit you.
Phil: Awesome. Thank you all so much for your, your time and wisdom. It's really great to get a little bit of time to Get to know you, get an understanding of perspective and see how you're helping multinationals really make a change in the way they do business.
Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Thanks again
to our guests for coming on the show to discuss EHS audits. Here are my top key takeaways from the discussion. One, [00:22:00] generally, we see increased demand for EHS audits throughout the APAC region. This is due to a variety of factors, including multinational expansions into Asia, Global regulation and supply chain considerations and an increased focus on well being and environmental best practices.
2. Due to budget constraints and the post pandemic shift, companies are increasingly using remote or virtual EHS audits. This trend allows for cost effective compliance monitoring, especially in regions where travel restrictions or economic pressures exist. 3. As we've stressed in our past episodes, engaging local auditors and building strong local compliance teams is vital due to regional differences in regulations.
For example, regulations in many Asia Pacific countries may only be available in local languages, and understanding the nuances can prevent misinterpretation and ensure compliance. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Rethinking EHS. We'd like to thank our exceptional guests for sharing their expertise.
[00:23:00] Please don't forget to hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts, so you never miss an episode. For more tools and tips on how to work globally with a local lens, check out the Global Resources page on the Inogen Alliance website to access webinars, downloads, ebooks, and more. Find the link in the show notes or visit www.
inogenalliance. com forward slash resources. Follow InnoGent Alliance on LinkedIn for the latest updates. And until next time, let's innovate, inspire, and rethink EHS together.